Spec Ops fails.

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Maxyzzz940
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Spec Ops fails.

Hello, this topic i start for discussion fails of the spec ops.

First video about russian SOBR (Special Rapid Response Unit) in Krasnoyarsk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIOfDU6oPs
Verbatim report:

0:03 EL to suspect: Drop Weapon and we'll talk!
0:04 EL to suspect: Drop weapon in the corridor!
0:06 EL to suspect: Drop weapon! I guarantee no one will touch you!
0:09 EL to suspect: Talk with me!
0:10 Unknown to suspect: Drop to the floor!
*pointman cheking*
0:15 Pointman to EL: Laid out, put it to the floor.
0:18 Unknown 2 voice: So quiet, there can be a second, more carefully.
*Officer go in the apartment*
0:22 EL to suspect: Attention I'm going!
*Suspect says something*
0:27 EL to suspect: I'm a senior! I am the leader of the group.
0:30 EL to suspect: Get down on the ground, lay down on the ground!
0:33 EL to element: Come on, Alexander!
*element go inside*
0:34 EL to element: Relax, all is quiet.
*element inside*
0:38 EL to suspect: Get down, get down on the floor!
0:39 EL to element: Alexander! Quiet, quiet, quiet! Stop! Sanya, go away! No one ... Step away all! Step back.
0:45 *Two officers came out, one pushes the gun*
1:03 *two shots fired*
1:04 *Russian foul language*
1:05 *Skirmish*
1:10 EL to element: He hurt me! He wounding me!
1:11 EL to Sasha: Sanya, Sanya! I'm hold on!
*The officer crawls out*
1:16 EL to Sasha: Sanya! I'm hold! hold!
1:19 EL to Sasha: Hold, Alexander!

If i understand right, the name of pointman is Alexander (Sasha, Sanya)
And i think what the EL talking about wound, when scream: "i'm hold!"

What newspapers wrote about it from the 11/March/2012:

On Sunday, in Zheleznogorsk investigators of regional Investigative Committee, SOBR operatives and criminal investigation operatives MVD of the Krasnoyarsk Territory tried to conduct a search in the apartment of 62-year-old man. He was suspected of committing a serious crime.

The events took place on the ninth floor of an apartment building in Zheleznogorsk. The suspect has had visitors armed resistance, starting fire on them from various types of firearms. For dessert, he threw three grenades at them.
The police returned fire. During the shootout, 38-years-old operative SWAT was badly injured. A landlord for inhospitality just shot.

Why EL go inside...

xXWilDXx
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Damn that 62 yrs old man will not give up that fast. well every special unit with their own plan/tactics.
They just had mercy on him but they didn't expect such a party inside... ahah.

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Maxyzzz940
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Bosco
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"mild crime"-> arrest by normal police/investigation unit (gentle and with explanation) , more clever way to do this is not carrying out in sus apartment but wait for / tempt him go out of his place.

vs

"really serious crime" -> swat-level police called out (aggressive assault/ dynamic entry used), no point to carry out explanation/ discussion by a fully equipped aggressive/ impolite-looking SWAT member.

unit--equipments--method--manner--should be acted correspond to the crime level

Maxyzzz940
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what usually do is:
"mild crime"-> arrest by normal police/investigation unit (gentle and with explanation) , more clever way to do this is not carrying out in sus apartment but wait for / tempt him go out of his place.

vs

"really serious crime" -> swat-level police called out (aggressive assault/ dynamic entry used), no point to carry out explanation/ discussion by a fully equipped aggressive/ impolite-looking SWAT member.

So, the "mild crime" not appropriate here.

He was suspected of committing a serious crime.

How u can see, the SOBR = SWAT. But why the EL did what he did??? Perhaps he was surprised by the age of the suspect?! It's not normal for SOBR where u can't feel something. Only do ur work, how robot. It's training course.

Raken
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From this video it's very hard to say what happened, what was really the problem. In my opinion the EL didn't think the old man could/will shoot him. He was wrong.

But perhaps we could better understand the situation, if we would see what happened in the corridor.

And despite of this fail, I know the Russians are tough as hell, and I never would mess with them.

Maxyzzz940
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Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago

From this video it's very hard to say what happened, what was really the problem. In my opinion the EL didn't think the old man could/will shoot him. He was wrong.

But perhaps we could better understand the situation, if we would see what happened in the corridor.

And despite of this fail, I know the Russians are tough as hell, and I never would mess with them.

I spoke with one person, he said that man which entered the first in the apartment is not the EL. It was Detective. He said that in this case, SOBR performs the task of covering and their fault that the task was taken alive, and it was not possible. The operative wound, though, and because of him.

Ryan
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Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago

Hey, target description would of already gave his age. Age has nothing to do with this.

Their initial formation was fine on a switch-back stairwell but as the suspect came to the door and obviously went back into the room you could tell that was the line between success and failure. Why? These guys did not have an entry in mind.

It looked like a pressure pot technique designed for making the suspect come out on his own accord but turned into three to five men crowded in a stairwell. One of which, the cameraman, is casually having a cigarette. If he was civilian he would of been moved, so this looked like a "promo", "suspect" or "touch-up" video.

Either they wanted to promote themselves through an entry video that actually worked or they wanted video evidence of real raids so they could touch-up their errors. Now to say it either got leaked or publically released then it is more likely a suspect video to put this suspect behind bars for longer for what he has done. To confirm they had the right person and use it in evidence within court, and it might be that way because they gave multiple call-outs before entry being very precautious.

The "Detective" who looks like he is not apart of that unit due to attire, but then again some units do try to use civilian attire to gather intelligence pre-raid, really messed up that entry. He casually walks in with a short weapon trying to talk this guy out of it, is he serious? All communications in a pressure pot technique should be done from outside the threat area. Even worse is that he is not giving the team intelligence on what is inside that building, i.e. two full rooms right.

Even worse is that the Detective is somehow calling the shots on how the entry operate and is destroying their SOP/IOP's from the inside out!!! Obviously the suspect has identified that this dude infront of him is not apart of the entry team but is still a threat because he has a weapon. And this person telling his mates to back-out is making him nervous. The entry team want to back-up this Detective, but the Detective realizes the state of the suspect at this point, another man in his house, another step in the door and he'll just explode hence the call to pull out. One of them drags out, by foot, what looks like a weapon. I believe that's the detectives by the look of it, and the Detective is still bargaining for a surrender.

Now while this is going on the entry team should:
1) Have a codeword and SOP to decide to overthrow the Detectives demands and go for their entry and arrest.
2) Be poised in formation at the door, ready to back-up the Detective instead of wildly spaced and looking unprofessional. They have their heads going everywhere, obvious helmet fire, and do not look ready for contact.

The shots ring out. Confirmed they weren't ready for contact. Most of them burst out that room and break contact but do not return fire. They stumble on the stairwells before deciding to move back into a firing position (of which they should of been in anyway).

They finally return fire a good 3-4 seconds later. Enough time for the suspect to get an angle and kill them or even reload or be in the middle of reloading.

The good points are that the man-down drill was carried out perfectly and they dragged the injured out. They eventually returned fire and gained back their superiority and momentum.

My idea of CQB is running in with a sword.