Raid/Shooting in London

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Raid/Shooting in London

Shortly before dawn this morning, there was a police anti-terrorism raid on a house in East London. During the raid a man was shot (and not killed) by police.

More interestingly, there are around 100 police officers there who have closed off several nearby roads, and all of them seem to be wearing chemical protective suits and carrying (though not wearing) respirators.

I wonder what has been prevented, I am sure we will find out.

You will find the most recent reports on BBC News.

SAS_Webmaster
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Further to that, there is a 5 mile air exclusion zone around the house, which is an odd precaution to take. It suggests to me that they suspect explosive material.

Explosives and chemicals at the same time, don't like the sound of that!

SAS_Relish
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Strange link James, very strange link.

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SAS_Webmaster
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Lol, I put in the wrong link, fixed it now. That's a very good site too though.

SAS_Relish
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The old link wil be our little seceret James. I wont tell any one else what your "interests" are. I-m so happy

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Lol that sounds so dodgy.

SAS_WIZ
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The CAA have now imposed a minimum ceiling of 2500 feet for all aircraft in that area.Police would not confirm whether the mobile phone network in the area around the property was deactivated during the raid.

I think your right James, some kind of very dangerous explosives, most definatly of the NBC variety.

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Odd thing is they haven't evacuated the area. I think only the road the house is on is closed, there are journalists and public very close, and all the police look relaxed, more like nothing had been found or whatever had been removed.

SAS_WIZ
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Well that is weird, the CAA have imposed there restrictions for four days.

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SAS_Relish
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I am guessing they dont want news helicpoters etc annoying ppl for days on end.

It certainly seems they didnt find much as the Police Complaints thingy was called in very quickly and allowed to investigate the shot being fired.

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Spidey01
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Very interesting, glad they did it if any thing was up.

One thing though, I though police in the UK didn't carry firearms? Although I'd hope they have some kind of weapon with them at all times.

Although I'd reckon it'd be easier to censor then a zillion networks. BBC I must admit they seem to give good coverage. (The only News Feeds I load and like BBC in fact.)

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Police in the UK do not carry guns. They carry CS sprays but that's it.

But of course there are special armed units who are sent to any situation where weapons are involved or expected.

Rouge
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Add the Norwegian police to the list of the very few unarmed police forces in the world.

In Oslo, Smith and Wesson revolvers are stored in locked and sealed compartments in ordinary patrol cars and "SWAT" team-cars.

Delta ("beredskapstroppen" -- a highly specialised SWAT team) does have SMGs and pistols stored in their cars.

Beredskapstroppen is a specialised police unit situated in Oslo, Norway. The unit is the main anti-terror force in Norway, and works closely with FSK, the German GSG9 and the British SAS.

Delta is trained to perform dangerous operations such as high-risk arrests and hostage situations. The team members are recruited from the ordinary police force. Despite located in Oslo, the force has responsibility in the whole country; including the oil installations in the North Sea.

Beredskapstroppen contributed in the NOKAS-robbery (where a police super intendent where shot and killed by the robbers) and in the dramatic hostage situation at Sandefjord Airport on September 29, 1994 (where Delta personell shot and killed one perpetrator, and incapasitated another with powder from a fire extinguisher. Three hostages were rescued unharmed). Members from Delta has also contributed in "Team Six" -- the special police anti-terror unit on the Balkans.

The unit differs from other anti-terror units such as the Special Air Service and GSG9 units in the way that they are also performing ordinary police duty in Oslo.

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SAS_Shield
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police here in the US depends on the department on what weapons are permitted and to whom. locally all officers have an MP5 in the trunk along with their pistol on their person

"Game over man." Pvt. Hudson. SAS 22nd E.V.R.

Merge
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Weapons

Police Officers in the US are certainly well-armed, but our SWAT Dept. has what I would call the largest arsenal in the world, hehe. I don't just mean San Jose either, I'm talking about the whole of California and am including the LA SWAT teams.

Can't speak for other states, but I know that since the 1997 Robbery of the North Hollywood Bank of America, all SWAT officers and patrol officers were given access to higher caliber, more powerful weapons such as AR-15s and M4-M16 rifles. These weapons are usually mounted in patrol cars in the trunks, and SWAT officers carry weapons of this kind 24/7 along with an assortment of other weapons. We always have the equipment necessary to respond to a crisis in our vehicles to minimize the time it takes to get from one location in town to a crisis location elsewhere.

Personally I have:

Modified Colt M4 Carbine w/ ACOG 4x sight, carbon fiber stock/grip, as well as a red-dot sight, tac-light, Trijicon night sight, and reflex sight that can be mounted from my trunk.

A Benelli M1 Shotgun, with beanbags, 00 Buckshot, 1 oz. slugs, and Frangible (Door Breaching) Ammunition.

A Sig-Sauer .226 Handgun with a taclight mounted always.

A Kimber II .45 Handgun with a taclight mounted always. (Standard SWAT)

A Beretta M9 9mm Pistol with an integral laser sight mounted just under the barrel in the frame of the gun.

An Assortment of tactical gear including glass punches, "rakes", multitools, cutting equipment, climbing/rappelling gear, helmet, mountable face-shield, tacticacl load-bearing vest, radio equipment, an M18 taser with extra cartridges, a gas mask, all the trimmings of gloves, hoods, and the like, one Class IIIA Bulletproof vest, 2 ceramic plates that can be inserted into the vest, and a partridge in a pear tree Wink .

So as you can see, my SUV is basically an armory on wheels. And if necessary i can go back to the department and switch out my M4 for a longer M16, or even an MP5 or G36C.

I feel for those guys in the UK.

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SAS_Shield
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oh to be in a state that actually cares about that. NJ i think is by far one of the worst unfortantely. They all have the same loadout which is about 15 or more years old. They recently stopped use of M16's and went strictly with the M4. They have MP5SD3...3's! also using the sig P-226. The newest is the shotgun, one remington and one M1 benelli. Their SWAT truck is just a ford 450 with steel plates around it. I know the budget issues in the past 15 years hasnt helped at all in getting their proper gear. Merge wanna donate some funds?

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Funds

You can't have any of our toys... they're all mine, ha ha ha...

Would if i could, but i dont have that much cash in reserve.

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In the US the police probably need those weapons, because a large proportion of the population carry guns and so they have to be able to stay in charge and to defend themselves.

In the UK things are so different. Most kinds of guns are illegal, so guns are thankfully extremely rare. They are even trying to ban replica guns (BB/airsoft) because people keep waving them at the armed police and getting shot.

If we gave guns to our police, there would be so many wrong shootings. We have enough of those as it is. I can only imagine how many you have in the US.

The bigger problem here at the moment is knives. All the kids who think they're hard carry knives to make up for them being small. Probably they don't really want to kill somebody but then they get into some minor dispute and .. WHOOPS .. look for moral support and the knife is right there to hand.

I can only imagine the carnage on our streets if it was guns though. I prefer it our way.

SAS_Adze
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I know I definitely wouldn't trust a regular plod with a gun to shoot the right person at the right time! Carrying guns is becoming slightly more common in certain areas, but nowhere near like America. Apparantly, near where I used to live, the cops were supposed to have been given a handful of tazers. But I've never seen someone carrying one.

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Police

Actually there are not nearly as many bad shootings here by cops as there used to be. Officers are taught to only fire when a threat exists to themselves or another citizen, and the threat must be a deadly one to warrant the use of lethal force by the officer. Thankfully, with the distribution of tasers, FN303 launchers, and other less-than-lethal weapons, the rate of bad shootings is declining swiftly.

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SAS_WIZ
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What i dont like is that here in the UK, everytime a cop discharges a weapon,tazer or even pepper; there seems to be a public inquiry. Usually led by the do-gooders that live life with there heads up there ar*es and have no real grasp on reality.

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Merge
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Cops

Police officers do have a certain standard of courtesy to uphold when dealing with the public (criminals included). But there comes a time, like when you're faced with a 200 lb man with a knife charging at you full bore, where you have to get a little dirty... if you take my meaning.

While we don't have a public inquiry EVERY time something happens. The department usually gives you paperwork to do each time you discharge your firearm or your taser. Every time a SWAT officer fires his gun and hits a suspect, there is always a suspension for him, with pay, and a formal investigation to see that the shooting was warranted. which they most always are (I've never seen one in my years here go on as unwarranted).

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SAS_Adze
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What i dont like is that here in the UK, everytime a cop discharges a weapon,tazer or even pepper; there seems to be a public inquiry. Usually led by the do-gooders that live life with there heads up there ar*es and have no real grasp on reality.

I couldn't disagree more. I think that's exactly how it should be. Taking someone elses life is quite possibly the most serious thing anyone could ever do, and if people don't make sure it's done exactly right, all you've got is chaos.

Like when that poor bloke got shot down in London, and it turned out that it was just a massive cock up on the part of the police. I'm not saying they should be perfect every time, because obviously that's just unrealistic and I'm not that stupid... but that was a long long way from perfect.

SAS_WIZ
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theres no cock up.

If a cop shouts 'STOP, ARMED POLICE' then you stop, or you deserve that 9mm. Its quite simple.

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Maybe some of us can justify it like that, but the general public will never think that killing someone because they didn't do what you said is acceptable.

There has to be a very direct threat to life, with a high degree of certainty.

After all, if you were walking down the street and a 21 year old in a hoodie and baseball cap pointed a gun at you and yelled "get on the ground! armed police!" or some variant of that, can you be 100% sure that you wouldn't panic and run? If you have handled guns or are used to guns being around then you might keep your cool and do what you're told, but would every member of the good old public?

Also the person could be drunk, on drugs, or mentally ill and you can't shoot somebody just for that.

It sounds macho to say shoot em if they run but in the real world that is not appropriate.

It might be different in a situation where you have to break a hostage scenario then it can be justified as there is a high chance they are running away from you towards the hostage to kill them or detonate a bomb or something. But on the streets you cannot shoot somebody unless you are completely sure they pose an imminent risk to life.

SAS_WIZ
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well the story goes like this...

Armed police break down a house where there is a guy in the front room assembling some kind of chemical explosive, i fully support the guy that shot him. Armed police of any nation are not idiots, he had an explosive device, the cop is not an ammunitions specialist; he doesnt know if that bomb is good to go. All he knows is that from MI5 intel, there is a bomb factory and a possible connection with NBC (Nuclear,Biological, Chemical). Can anyone just walk into a room and make that 1/4 of a second judgement on a terrorist situation?

1/4 of a second, is the average time that a pro has to make an assesment in an armed situation.

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Merge
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Police

Maybe some of us can justify it like that, but the general public will never think that killing someone because they didn't do what you said is acceptable.

There has to be a very direct threat to life, with a high degree of certainty.

After all, if you were walking down the street and a 21 year old in a hoodie and baseball cap pointed a gun at you and yelled "get on the ground! armed police!" or some variant of that, can you be 100% sure that you wouldn't panic and run? If you have handled guns or are used to guns being around then you might keep your cool and do what you're told, but would every member of the good old public?

Also the person could be drunk, on drugs, or mentally ill and you can't shoot somebody just for that.

It sounds macho to say shoot em if they run but in the real world that is not appropriate.

It might be different in a situation where you have to break a hostage scenario then it can be justified as there is a high chance they are running away from you towards the hostage to kill them or detonate a bomb or something. But on the streets you cannot shoot somebody unless you are completely sure they pose an imminent risk to life.

Well said.

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SAS_WIZ
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oh dear.........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5047200.stm

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The official statement...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5242564.stm

They did say that the guy was shot by one 9mm round from an HK MP5, The officer was the only armed, however he did have 14 normal police behind him as he entered the door.

SAS_WIZ