NTF banned Random

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SAS_Random
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NTF banned Random

A player named MachineHead, who applied to SAS entered the NTF server and asked me if I "got his app"
I replied "yes, you play both RvS and SWAT, cool"

I was then banned by NTF_CPT_Medic for "promoting SAS"

This is how they behave. I would prefer that all SAS stay out of NTF servers. I won't force you to, but they are not right in the head.

This was very weak and malicious. SAS was not mentioned at any time. What you see above was the ENTIRE conversation with Medic which outlines everything I said that got me banned.

[11:24] [SAS]_CO_Random: [10:58] [SAS]_CO_Random: hi Wiz
[10:58] [SAS]_CO_Random: i just got banned from NTF server and I have no idea why
[10:59] [SAS]_CO_Random: some guy six rounds prior asked me if i read his app and all I said was yep that he plays both rvs and swat, cool
[10:59] [SAS]_CO_Random: then 3 maps later ban
[10:59] [SAS]_CO_Random: very odd

[11:07] [SAS]_CO_Random: [10:56] [SAS]_CO_Random: Who banned me from NTF server and why?
[10:57] [SAS]_CO_Random: if this is how you guys want to be, that's fine by me
[11:02] [SAS]_CO_Random: you're gonna give me the silent treatment too. I was hoping that NTF would behave honorably, but I'm beginning to think that was too much to ask
[11:03] NTF_CPT_Medic: No, I was on the phone. You were banned for promoting SAS on our servers. ref machineheads app
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: i did not promote him
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: or promote sas
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: he asked if i read his app and i said i had
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: that was the end of it
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: lame excuse mate
[11:03] [SAS]_CO_Random: very very thin
[11:04] [SAS]_CO_Random: was it you who "witnessed" this?
[11:04] [SAS]_CO_Random: or were you told that i was promoting sas?
[11:04] NTF_CPT_Medic: No, our players gets banned from your servers just for showing up. We let SAS play as long as sas stick to our rules
[11:04] [SAS]_CO_Random: what did i do wrong?
[11:04] [SAS]_CO_Random: by what i said, how did I promote sas?
[11:05] [SAS]_CO_Random: and no, your players don't get banned from our servers
[11:05] [SAS]_CO_Random: name someone?
[11:05] NTF_CPT_Medic: I dont need to elaborate more of the ban. Our grounds, we pay for the grounds, we decide.
[11:05] [SAS]_CO_Random: fine, be that way, but you know I did not promote SAS
[11:05] NTF_CPT_Medic: Our PR - HC got banned
[11:05] [SAS]_CO_Random: you are just using this as a "reason"
[11:05] NTF_CPT_Medic: nope
[11:06] [SAS]_CO_Random: a PR is not a member and did you find out what he did?
[11:06] [SAS]_CO_Random: he'll fit in nicely at NTF
[11:06] [SAS]_CO_Random: I can't believe you are behaving this way
[11:06] NTF_CPT_Medic: no, we did not ask, your grounds, you decide.
[11:07] [SAS]_CO_Random: haha
[11:07] [SAS]_CO_Random: you're too funny
[11:18] [SAS]_CO_Random: [11:15] NTF_CPT_Medic: Like i said, our servers, we decide. You have your PG's and TG's and your set of rules there.
[11:16] [SAS]_CO_Random: i'm done talking to you because you know what you did was malicious
[11:16] [SAS]_CO_Random: that's fine, your server, your rules
[11:16] [SAS]_CO_Random: you can be malicious if you want
[11:16] [SAS]_CO_Random: you can't even answer the simple question of how what I said promoted SAS
[11:16] [SAS]_CO_Random: SAS wasn't even mentioned
[11:17] [SAS]_CO_Random: and app was not even spelled out
[11:17] [SAS]_CO_Random: just abbreviated
[11:17] [SAS]_CO_Random: and in order to not be rude I answered his question with the shortest response that let him know I had read it and wasn't BSing him
[11:18] [SAS]_CO_Random: if you don't understand that, then there is something terribly wrong with your thought process

SAS_Vet_Random

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SAS_Random
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I have asked their CO to lift the ban.

I have stated my case and hope that reason wins the day.

I used to think highly of Medic, but to pull something as thinly veiled as this ban does not speak highly of his character.

SAS_Vet_Random

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I want to make it clear, that all NTF members are welcome on SAS server as is all players in the community.

But as im reading this situation, it is clear that we have a classic case of admin abuse. I have read NTF servers rules and they are very vague on this issue.

NTF Server Rule 9. This is our server, do not recruit for your clan or train your members on our server. Instant BAN will result!

So recruiting and training members of a clan is an offence. Fair enough our servers rules state similar.

So the situation was that a player (MachineHead) asked a question on whether he had recieved his app. Random then replied Yes i have.

Then NTF Cpt Medic bans SAS CO Random as a result of that question.

I always give people a fair crack of the whip before i judge so i had a chat on xfire with NTF Cpt Medic regarding this issue.

[17:45] NTF_CPT_Medic: I'm here now
[17:46] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: ok cool.......i heard about a ban by you for Random.....I was wondering why?....and also......if machinehead was promoting his app on NTF server why isnt he banned from NTF server aswell.
[17:47] NTF_CPT_Medic: I will not comment on that. Its between our CO and the person banned. End of debate
[17:48] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: So 1 rule of some and another for the few........Medic come on play fair.........if 1 action for 1 then if the same thing is happening with another player then treat him in the same fashion.
[17:49] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: I did with 8balls, Icolone and Machinehead now they were promoting their clan on SAS servers.
[17:50] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: Im not asking for a debate all im asking for is fairness.
[17:50] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: Or we can treat NTF members in a similar fashion..........the choice is yours to make.
[17:51] NTF_CPT_Medic: If any NTF members promotes NTF on SAS servers, go ahead and ban them. Then we'll deal with them.
[17:51] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: all im asking is for fairness.
[17:52] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: Ban Random then Ban MH for the same offence and breach of NTF server rules
[17:54] NTF_CPT_Medic: MH did not breach any rules. He is not in a clan, he applied for SAS. Our server are frequently visited by several members of SAS, but we havent banned any just because they are SAS. But if our rules are broken, we will sanction them.
[17:56] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: so in order to breach your rules you have to be in a clan? So JOHNDOE can promote what he likes on NTF servers?
[17:59] NTF_CPT_Medic: How we run our servers are up to us as you run your servers. SAS members are more than welcome to our servers as long as they stick to our rules.
[18:02] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: Im assuming they are the same as SAS EVR, but im not telling how to run your servers i am merely asking for fair treatment of SAS members. You know what you did, was unfair treatment. If Rouge overturns it which im gotta make a bet he wont. Then the matter will be resolved.
[18:02] [SAS]_RSM_Sniper: Keep it clean and fair Medic

Now from this conversation i believe that NTF Cpt Medic is unsure himself of what the rules are. But i requested that all NTF member admins treat SAS members fairly. All NTF members are welcome but if we are seeing cases where SAS members are being mistreated in NTF servers then NTF welcomeness will be reviewed.

SAS_Capt_Sniper

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wow, just as i was leaving rvs for a while, i did notice a conflict between members, and i also noticed a divide and 2 seperate servers, though i havent yet been on ntf server... or sas server l8ly. i plan on playing again and hope both servers arnt dead because of this.

To be honest, i think you people should kiss and makeup, whatever the issue was. Biggrin

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Wow I'm not an RvS guy, but from reading that, Random's ban was not justified whatsoever. Hopefully this can be resolved swiftly with both sides in agreement.

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SAS_WIZ
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Sounds like he was set up, to me..Oooh Randoms here, lets find some way to ban him.

Pretty lame really

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to keep you informed, I Xfired Rouge about the ban. He was afk at the time, but would have received the message. I outlined why I thought I was unjustly banned.

I told him that sometime today I would attempt to join NTF #4 and would know how he ruled by whether or not I could join the server.

Bottom line is my appeal fell upon deaf ears and the ban is still in effect.

Let that be an example of the type of treatment this splinter group of SAS is inclined to treat your CO.

These guys have no scruples or code other than words on a screen.

SAS_Vet_Random

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SAS_Malty
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I was under the impression it was removed. :?

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Yes Malty even though they have publically put a ban removal on their website. Random is still banned. This shows their true colours NTF are a splinter group of SAS using SAS structure and SAS SOPs. That i wrote. So the only thing original to NTF is their Bullshitting skills.

So NTF members welcomeness on SAS servers are to be reviewed.

SAS_Capt_Sniper

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I will attempt today to join the server again, to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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The ban has been removed. I just tested server #4 and was able to join without error.

Bad decisions may be reversed. I'm satisfied that, regardless of what the true motivation to lift the ban was, that justice was done. They probably didn't appreciate the bad press or the attention that this ban attracted.

It does not seem he lifted the ban because he thought it was wrong...based on an unrepentive Medic's own words:

Medic's Forum Post: "Out of pure desperation for your sobbing to stop, I have decided to lift the ban, Random. Elvis has left the building.

If you feel mistreated in any way or form, you can email Rouge, he loves hearing how it sucks to be you Blum 3

All jokes aside:

There are proper channels to follow should any of our guests be unhappy with anything, and this is to file a complaint through an email or a PM. We have procedures to treat all complaints fairly and evenhandedly.

Disturbing our membership doesn't stick with us, and we are not impressed by such behaviour.

Case closed, and filed under "N" in our Archives."

I guess that informing NTF members about how their leadership behave is "disturbing"...I would agree. It was indeed very disturbing to be treated this way and then for Medic to not admit he overreacted in a purely vindictive way.

Medic, I expected better of you.

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Sniper, you are correct. Their rule 9 is the closest thing to what they supposedly banned me for.

They have updated their server rules as of 7 July 2010...I wonder why?

Anyway, even with the updated rules, I was not in violation of any of them!

I was targeted, I was banned. They got the beginnings of some very negative press and decided to lift the ban to mitigate the damage. Smart move.

SAS members, if you wish to play on NTF servers (and I don't know why you would want to after this), please be aware of their server rules.

If you have friends who you normally meet on NATO servers, I strongly recommend that you Xfire / IM /PM them to meet you on our servers instead.

Just don't ask them while in their servers or they may consider that also a violation of rule 9. They seem to be very touchy.

SAS_Vet_Random

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Afterthought:

You know what is really funny? I just, a few minutes ago, registered on the NTF website so I could thank Rouge for his removal of the ban. I found out via Malty's reply about Medic's post . You can guess that I did not end up posting a Thank You note.

If they had simply posted, after review of the situation, we decided to lift the ban, that would have resolved it without technically admitting any wrong-doing or being nasty.

He chose to be nasty. Is this what they wanted to change SAS into? I'm more glad today that they are gone. I hope you, who remained loyal, are as well.

SAS_Vet_Random

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I believe that the only reason he got nasty about the situation is because he was wrong and he knew he was wrong.

So he threw the dolly out of the pram and made he post that i saw in their forum.

Medic i know as a result of the Coup de SAS you are banned from SAS website. But a message to you is clear

Keep it clean and fair ! The mark of a good admin.

SAS_Capt_Sniper

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My military training taught me to respect my CO's "suggestions" as a sign of respect. As long as I am associated officially with SAS, I shall do so, until otherwise directed.

This should not be interpreted to be a reflection of any current, personal issues with NTF. More oxygen will only feed the flames. I will miss having a chance to practice with other teamwork-oriented people, particularly while SAS clan's servers are down. Practicing with hotdogs has serious limitations for honing SAS proceedures and, is in fact, damaging to those skills. So be it. Warm up the HAMACHI, I'm on my way. Smile

IMAGE(http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/0/slack911.png) aka Slack911, yamaraion, M827_CSM_COUGAR,Cougar]

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Cougar we have an SAS Server in operation check out the homepage.

I recommend all members and recruit use it while we have it.

SAS_Capt_Sniper

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This issue seems to have been resolved.

I will issue a order to all SAS members to respect all NTF members and all players this is in keeping with our code of conduct. Any member shown to be disrespecting anybody in public that member will be reported.

Matter concluded.

SAS_Capt_Sniper

Head of Recruitment & Tactical Training

GCHQ - 22nd SAS Elite Virtual Regiment