does Norway copy German weapon technology?

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Eder
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Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago
does Norway copy German weapon technology?

Howdy all

I found military video on youtube. there was a scene with jeeps and mgs. first I thought it is a mg42.
but it has only large similarity. can someone say which weapon that is?

link:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HotelZeroOne#p/u/22/R9fQ_LMIIjE
copyright: HotelZeroOne Dirol

IMAGE(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9003/mg42z.jpg)

MB
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Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago

Well...the link you posted was from Norway not sweden

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Piratexzibit
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Last seen: 8 years 4 months ago

German engineering New russian

SAS_Ezbass
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Veteran
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Cool clip, I didnt understand a single word, but coulda had a great time at the buffet.

TheLongestDay
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Many european nations still use slightly modified versions of the MG42, most of them under different names, in Germany its called the MG3. On the first glance they all look like the MG42, but most of them have a different caliber (like 7.62mm), modern sights and mechanisms to prevent cook off (gun keeps firing after trigger is released, mechanical problem with original MG42) and slow down the rate of fire to save ammunition. Those ARs they were carrying in the video looked like the H&K G3, Sweden and Finland use german Leopard 2A4 tanks also. The reason: Why spend millions on weapons development when you can buy real good stuff for peanuts?

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Spidey01
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It's hard to escape the MG42 even today.... lol. The MG3, MG51, and SIG 710 are based on it, other countries likely have developed variants here and there for it. But at the end of the day, it's hard to improve on nearly-perfect, lol.

I've also heard that the Bundeswehr is going to adapt the H&K MG4 for the squad level, so perhaps we won't be seeing sexy MG3s in games any more in the near future SadSad :-(.

For sci fi fans out there, in Aliens the M56 "Smart Gun" was made by mounting a beloved German MG to a steadycam hariness and grafting on a motorcycle handle on one end lol. While the M41A Pulse Rifle was designed by mating the "Tommy Gun" Thompson with a SPAS-12.

TheLongestDay
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True, the MG42 was ahead of its time with its extreme rate of fire and mass production capability (machine-produced parts that could be assembled easily and fast) but doesnt meet modern requirements in terms of durability and reliability and standard calibers. You can see the inspiration it was to the US troops when you look at the M60 in its early versions.

There are few guns which have more firepower, like this Beauty, erm, Beast.

IMAGE(http://worldweapons.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/797px-vulcan1.jpg)

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Medic
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Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago

Ahhhhh, this reminds me of the days at the academy...

Only difference; the food looked much better here, and we had a lot of F-16's over our heads

Piratexzibit
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Sweden used H&K G3 for some time, but switched to FNC80. Nowadays the HomeGuard use the G3.

Eder
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Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago

lol mb - now all swedish ppl hate me.

SAS_WIZ
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I suggest that you ask our RSM, he is quite knowledgeable in Norwegian weaponary

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MaverickH1
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Last seen: 8 years 2 months ago

I would dare to say that there haven't really been advancements in small arms technology except for better machines, better processes, and better materials. We can now create a much more accurate and complex part out of a wider variety of resources. The basic function of the M1911 pistol from 1911 is practically the same as your modern day HK P30. The basic function of the AK47 is practically the same as the HK G36.

Machine guns aren't much different. But we've been able to come up with better ways to cool them, better metals to handle the heat, etc.

But HK weaponry COULD be said to be a simple adaptation from other designs. The Spanish CETME was the original G3, which was modified to be the MP5 I love and adore, which also turned into the HK53 (if that number is correct), and so on.

Just a few thoughts I had.

Hunter
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Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago

Looks like a MG3, the direct follower of the MG42:

Link: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG3

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Schnittbild.MG3.jpg)

Have a look here Eder:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG3

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Valroe
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Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago

Yes this is the MG3.
Crappy for assault purposes, but an excellent defense MG.

Thankfully we will be receiving a new LMG (probably the HK MG4) for assault infantry teams within a couple of years.

MaverickH1
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Valroe, do you know anything about the HK factory optic that the MG4 uses? It's the aluminum single optic that looks similar to the G36 optic, but it fits on a standard rail and has an additional rail on top of it.

I can't find any information about the reticle on it, or the zoom multiplication, etc. What can you tell me?

TheLongestDay
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Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago

Valroe, is it correct that the MG3 still requires two men to operate because of the weight of the gun itself and the ammunition?

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Spidey01
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You only need one man to operate an MG3 - he pulls the trigger lol.

I'm not sure what the standard practice for the Norwegian military is on patrols, but for the extent of my military knowledge: it's not uncommon to find larger crews when such a weapon is setup defensively. To keep a weapon like that in sustained action, you need a shooter and someone to help with the ammunition and spare barrels. With enough people and ammunition you can keep a gun like the MG3 firing, virtually until it's time to swap out barrels or face melting the thing off. When you consider two guys having to shoot, load, and swap the gun, you might also start to think that a third man to serve as a spotter to direct your fire is a good idea; especially if you've ever heard of tunnel vision. At least if you've got three men, you've someone to carry the machine gun, the ammo and barrels, the tripod + more ammo, and someone can have time for a smoke lol. The more people the more ammo, in Vietnam (US) and WWII (German) it wasn't all that uncommon for several members of a squad to pack extra ammo for the MG on top of their regular load. If you don't have at least two men, the machine guns usefuless is going to go down in the long run.

If you really want to mess yourself: think about a scenario with 3 or 4 machine gun nests with overlapping fields of fire on your teams only approach vector, that are trying to time their rates of fire so that the majority should be firing whenever one must go down for a barrel change. Time to bring up the mortar boys.

Medic
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If I dont remember wrong, MG3 is operated by 2 soldiers. One shooter and one with the ammo.

Since I was mostly a Medic, I did not have much training with machine guns. And in the terrorist unit at the base, we only did CQB.

TheLongestDay
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Yeah I know that in Omaha Beach they moved the ammunition with wheelbarrows into the bunkers so the gunners could shoot with almost no interruption.
A german soldier named Hein Severloh fired 12000 rounds, killing 2000 or more US soldiers that day. (He realised only what he did when he had to pick up his secondary weapon to shoot a GI that made it onto the sands)
Imagine what would have happened on that day if they had had more machineguns and less people carrying ammunition.

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Hunter
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Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago

MaverickH1,

the optics looks like a Zeiss one but it is not standard on the MG4.

Standard is a diopre and for optic mount a picatinny rail.

http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/mg4_specs.asp

Most popular optic on this weapon for the germany army is this one:

http://www.zeiss.de/C1257088004A21CA/Contents-Frame/521382359A5D46B9C12570BC002C5996

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MaverickH1
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Last seen: 8 years 2 months ago

MaverickH1,

the optics looks like a Zeiss one but it is not standard on the MG4.

Standard is a diopre and for optic mount a picatinny rail.

http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/mg4_specs.asp

Most popular optic on this weapon for the germany army is this one:

http://www.zeiss.de/C1257088004A21CA/Contents-Frame/521382359A5D46B9C12570BC002C5996

Yep, Zeiss makes them exclusively for HK like they did with the G36 scope options. Unfortunately, Zeiss never advertises any of that stuff on their website, so finding information about it can be difficult until someone publishes it.

I can't find any detailed information on the MG4 scope. :?

There's a guy who purchased one here in the states that is going to let me know the details when he finally receives it... so perhaps the waiting game continues...

IMAGE(http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/mg4/lg_mg4_4.jpg)

Obviously, I want the smaller one... not the huge night vision thing.

Hunter
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Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago

MaverickH1,

i dont know a us supplier but try this german one:

http://www.sl-8.de/Rails/rails.html

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MaverickH1
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Last seen: 8 years 2 months ago

MaverickH1,

i dont know a us supplier but try this german one:

http://www.sl-8.de/Rails/rails.html

Unfortunately, those are all G36/SL8 optics. None of those will fit a standard rail, it has to be the G36 or SL8. What's great about the MG4 optic is that it attaches to a "normal" optic rail.

There is a guy in the states (hkparts.net) that just ordered some of the MG4 scopes, but he doesn't know the pricing, he doesn't know when they will arrive, and he doesn't know any details on the scope. But how badass does it look on a 416?

IMAGE(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh216/raziel74868/416carryhandle-1.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh216/raziel74868/HKMG4-1.jpg)

I am aiming at putting something like it on my AUG clone, and would like to have magnification and a red dot on top, similar to the G36 dual optic. But It's been difficult finding a fixed zoom, simple, lightweight scope with a 5.56 reticle in it. The G36 scope is everything I want... except not compatible with what I have. I may end up buying a G36 dual optic, chopping off the carry handle, and making an adapter to make it work out.

That's an expensive option to have a somewhat outdated optic system.

Ultimately, it will look somewhat like this photoshop version I did. The bottom one is what I'm after, but without the carry handle. The reason the carry handle is a waste to me is that the center of gravity is almost exactly on the trigger, so carrying by the carry handle would be a little cumbersome.

IMAGE(http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv90/MaverickH1/Multi-sightedMSAR.jpg)

ETA: We also have retarded importation laws here in the states. Supposedly, if you order a gun part that is more than $100, you have to have an importation license or some kind of "okay" from our Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. It's an extensive and expensive process that I'd like to avoid.

Valroe
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Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago

I dont know much about those sights.
I thought it was a 3x telescopic sight that HK made themselves.