Apologize (AST|<<)|TheIceMan)

hello iceman!

i know ur not a bad guy u know how to play tactical and u know how we play here.
we(SAS and AST) have a bit different meanings about tactics and movement in swat.
ur understanding about tactics and how to play this game makes sence to me but we play another style here.
we respect ur vision of tactical gameplay and we never come to AST and try to instruct ur members with our style.
ur behavior wasnt arrogant it was just disrespectfull.
when i lead i want all to do things in the way i learned here and we show our tactics to our publicplayers if u comes now and say no i dont do this or that because of whatever..ok thats ur meaning and i respect it but dont do it while the mission just do what was told and after the mission u can say what u want to say...thats why we have a briefing also .sure the EL told what to do and what to use ..but if u have a better idea just tell us before we start the game then we can talk about the - and + .....in game i need all in my team to do what was told..i tolerated most of ur actions without orders because it makes sence but ...we play it different like AST and we want that our publicplayers play it that way and i think they like how we play otherwise the server is empty..i wasnt angry about it all i was angry about the day i was EL and told u to stack up on the door and u sayd no its clear already...ok i didnt saw that it was clear and i wanna be sure that it is clear so i send the team to this door und u stacked up on the door to the stairs and the whole team are confused..and how do it looks to pubbers on ur server mate when i come in and dont follow orders of a AST member and no action is taken by AST ?
i think u understand me and thx for the apologize i was waiting for respect all our members like we respect all of u guys in AST and all will be fine.

Well put Trooper

good meaning

I wanted to give the members a chance to respond before I chimed in.

I'm sure that we will play in AST servers still when our server is not busy. If we have good games with you, then the member who banned you may eventually reverse the ban. We don't intend to stop playing SWAT, so there is always time for a reversal

If you wanna do tactical discussions, Iceman, then feel free to open a topic to elaborate on it, but don't waste my and all others time on the server

You ask something, you get an answer, but this answer is you never enough...
...ending in 3 SAS explaining you why it is this or that way.

Each time we meet there are discussions. Why don't you try to have fun, good games and simply shut up?

This time I left the server cause of you - it's the second time. I promise you I won't leave the server a third time when you appear and disrupt our gaming.

DUKE, Germany

We like to play more than chat. I noticed on AST they spend lots of time between rounds.

Well, mb we are more relaxed between the rounds. Random you know Herbie, he likes to smoke between the rounds
Also we try to get newcomers on mumble and teach them (therefore the mumble voice chat), which takes some time.

Anyway I advised Ice to keep his opinion to himself when on SAS server.

Sincerely
AST|<<)))|Raptor

ps: Ice got currently some trouble with the login on this forum and therefore he wasn't able to reply by himself.

I can tell you only one thing, progress with IceMan is not looking good at all... If he has ability to change his mind about us, than he must do it right now. Otherwise, it may be too late.

Magnum, unless you banned this player, this is not your call. As always with SAS 22nd EVR any banned player must convince the admin that banned them personally to get reinstated.

It seems his ban was entered by someone today who has never, to my knowledge played with him. Why not let Raptor's final discussion try to have an impact. I agree that we are spending too much time talking about someone who is not a recruit.

If you want to talk about it sir, PM me. And for the record, I played with him.

Well well, as I could see you banned me again. In this case in my opinion there was no reason for it. It wasnt so serious. On SAS server there are many players worse behaved than me and you let them play on server anyway so I am asking you and myself what you have against me? Saying own opinion is not something against law I think. And Nick you have played with me just 3 or 4 games and after my unban you havent played with me again so. I would like to hear your explanation of this all...at first I didnt insult anyone, second I followed orders but maybe not how leader wanted. But generaly I did nothing wrong and serious. So cant see the reason of my second ban.

hello iceman!

i dont know what happened i wasnt there but i think the reason is that u always start a discusion.
i dont have anything against u mate but try to respect the members and the discision theyr make in game.when i ask u to lead u never wants to lead so i do it my way like u should do it when u lead and u expect from all that theyr have to follow ur orders.nobody is perfect and we may do things not everytime like it should to be played but dont go offence with a member about tactics because u will never change the mind of a SAS member in this case!
theyr all trained in the same way and when things happen than ok nvm it happens that a hostage goes down, that a teammember killed u because he was not on his position,it happens that not all listen and not all is covered.
i think its not the problem to tell the guys in the server what went wrong but i think the problem is u can be a bit harsh in some situations, when u think ur right and the other guy maybe isnt right or he think also he is right,then u start a (debatte-german).u will always lose this fight mate specially when pubbers and sas guys on the server and u act maybe not wrong but in the wrong way ..
so i think there is no person in this team who doesnt like
.thats all i can say about that.

i have to edit some:
i saw u on the RVS server and u never typed a word against ppl who can really stress u why u cant do that in swat also?

First of all: We don't need to play with someone to justify a BAN. As everyone knows, the SAS does not ban someone for fun.

You had dozens of chances to change your behavior, you even got a second chance after the first ban, but you are a stubborn person. After all it seems you still don't get the concept and still refuses to accept OUR rules on the server.

You can't run from your past. Curious, why don't you annoy people on ETS-servers? Or did you waste there your second chance after the first ban, too?

Ok lets get something clear, the term of ramboing=Player running on his own shooting/killing on sight, what you are/were doing was soloing=Going alone,playing mission on by yourself,not staying with team,playing alone in 1 team,not obeying leader orders...True,you weren't rambo,you disobeyed orders by leader cause appereantly you do things on your own,the problem is we don't do that way on ETS,we stick as a team and follow every order by leader.If you have suggestion on how to do something (clearing certain rooms/approaching rooms etc.) then just suggest it instead doing it by yourself.If you can't listen to leader than rather leave server and not argue with admins,cause they are doing their job, making sure everyone follows server rules.That's all.

Entire topic --> http://ets-clan.ucoz.com/forum/7-326-1

This sounds so damn familar - as of yesterday.

You ask something, you get an answer, but this answer is you never enough...
...ending in 3 SAS explaining you why it is this or that way.

Each time we meet there are discussions. Why don't you try to have fun, good games and simply shut up?

Nearly everyone thinks it and I tell you now very clear: You are a troll, a disruptive player, trying to challenge admins each time you are on the server by your not professional acting, causing trouble the one way or the other and disturbing our game whenever you are on the server. You can't deny the truth, can you?

Skillwise you may be a good player, but did you ever thought about that you might damage the reputation of AST-clan with your behavior? Guess not.

From a member of a well-known clan we expect professional conduct

...second I followed orders but maybe not how leader wanted....

And exactly this is your problem: You can't follow orders, you do things your own way (see comment of ETS_Sokol), you can't even keep a simple formation.

If your assigned position is #2 (Coverman), why the hell do you run in front of the element (several times during one single mission)?

It's pretty simple: Stick to the program or get removed.

You had more chances for the betterment and improvement of yourself than any other person. You failed.

Good that you're gone

SAS_Sgt_DUKE

Why are you still looking into the past? People are changing. That ETS post is almost one year old. I would like to see you all how did you play when you begun with SWAT game. As you said and SAS rule I think is: dont explain leave or kick player..Ok I am taking this but if on server are beginners or noobs there is no time to wait until they get into the form and after 3 times leaders orders to go somewhere these players are still on same place its the same waisting of time like all discusion. I always came on SAS or on anyother server to play and not to discus but people on servers are mostly kids and this game is not for kids in my opinion and mostly of them cant speak English neither. So why should we wait for them until they will get into the form or move somewhere..in game we are team and every member of team should know what to do and not still wait every second for order or sth like that. Because these noobs and begginers whole game is losing a sense.....I know its just a game but if you look at some documents about special forces in real action they are still moving and not waiting for orders in everyroom cause orders and important informations got in briefing...but you dont discus in briefing much so maybe thats the problem...

Pretty simple Iceman, it was your last chance. Now live with the consequences.

I wont live with anything. I think my second ban was pretty unfair. Can somebody tell me what I did wrong? Cause all this forum discusion is about nothing. I dont even remember how many games I played with Duke, Walker or Nick that they can judge me. They are not so many times on server so how can they understand whole situation?

Why are you still looking into the past? People are changing. That ETS post is almost one year old. I would like to see you all how did you play when you begun with SWAT game. As you said and SAS rule I think is: dont explain leave or kick player..Ok I am taking this but if on server are beginners or noobs there is no time to wait until they get into the form and after 3 times leaders orders to go somewhere these players are still on same place its the same waisting of time like all discusion. I always came on SAS or on anyother server to play and not to discus but people on servers are mostly kids and this game is not for kids in my opinion and mostly of them cant speak English neither. So why should we wait for them until they will get into the form or move somewhere..in game we are team and every member of team should know what to do and not still wait every second for order or sth like that. Because these noobs and begginers whole game is losing a sense.....I know its just a game but if you look at some documents about special forces in real action they are still moving and not waiting for orders in everyroom cause orders and important informations got in briefing...but you dont discus in briefing much so maybe thats the problem...

The reason we don't discuss much is because we have set procedures for various circumstances. Each member knows what to do and when. Then with experience they learn how to intuitively adapt to situations before them and deviate accordingly. We don't expect pubbers to have such initiative or intuition. Nor do we expect them to remember every minor detail of entry plans premission, especially when you consider that often times the entire dynamic of a room entry must be revised due to sustained casualties. For pubbers we keep things simple. Plans are short and concise, movement is generally slower and assaults are kept in sync.
You don't expect an elementary school student to excel in advanced calculus, so it stands to reason that a server that welcomes people whom it might be their time playing shouldn't expect people to play like Spec Ops off the bat. Even more so, as you yourself mentioned, when their grasp of English, especially nuanced tactical jargon, might not be best.

You were, I suspect, a noob once, I most certainly was. I know for a fact that having someone showing me the ropes is far more important than someone just racing off because teams shouldn't be waiting because that's not properly playing the game. The server is called a proving ground for a reason.

Just my two cents,

Guys I didn't saw the behavior of Ice in question. So I don't want to interfere in this discussion. It's imo a thing between Ice and SAS.

But since he got banned I assume he violated your server rules, which indeed violates AST member rule #1.
Now I'm in kinda difficult situation: I want to make sure all of our team members behave always well on all servers. On the other hand I don't want to take action against a teammate and friend without good evidence or at least a precise charge. Therefore I would appreciate futher information, especially concrete misbehauvior of ice mb even proved with a chat log if possible.

Sincerely
AST|<<)))|Raptor

AST-TheIceMan was on probation, but not much changed (except of stopping to insult people):

- arguing with admins
- disrespecting formation (nearly all the time)
- entering rooms alone ("soloing")
- annoying all people on the server with his conduct
- disruptive behavior in general

We don't need such persons on our servers

Raptor and Herbplant - this has nothing to do with AST-clan basically. Only due to the AST-tags and our good relations he wasn't removed months ago I want to clarify: The [SAS] 22nd EVR doesn't have any problem with any other AST-member. See you in game.

AST-TheIceMan was a chronic troublemaker on our properties for months and we took care of him according to our policies and domestic authority.

SAS_Sgt_DUKE

I wasnt arguing...just said one sentence about tactic thats all....I wasnt entering rooms without order (unless we were compromised). In my opinion I didnt have disruptive behaviour (you were on server 3 minutes). How can you know that I was annoying to them? Have you asked them? etc....

Webadmin

You messed with the wrong ones, Iceman.

SAS_Sgt_DUKE

***TOPIC CLOSED***