Open door, walk in (adjust pace if compromised) and clear your hard corners.
Again: nothing against it, this way we do dynamic actions.
But in stealth mode this tactic has a con: when passing the threshold the team commits inevitably to the room and must confront every contact. Again I'm arguing from a LE point of view (and representing the tactics of my team, not SAS). We have multiple scenarios where suspects are not aware of our presence and mb not even prepared to confront us. Ofc one can start a dynamic assault and clear the building fast to take advantage of this situation. But this approach might be difficult if the team is low on information about the target structure (for whatever reason).
In such a case we consider a sneaky, slow approach. Using angular scans or even the opti-wand to gather information before we enter a room. The aim of the stealth entry in such a situation is to spot contacts before we get spotted (searching for target indicators like gun muzzles, note that we only have to check the hard corners and possible blind spots). If we encounter a hostile contact WITHOUT being noticed, we can quickly withdraw a few steps. Then we have a huge tactical advantage and plenty of options: stay stealth by choosing a diffrent route, deploying gas or a (silent) less-lethal option, mb even to neutralize the contact with a suppressed weapon, or overwhelm the contact with a dynamic action.
Ofc if an enemy catches our team in the fatal funnel we are in trouble, no doubt about that. So this entry is not an option at all if we know that hostile contacts are present. And not our first option if we presume it. (Thinking about this argumentation we might use our stealth entry a little bit too often currently.)
Ok,
General rules of thumb, crouching allows for better stealth, for example; you are less likely to create shadows and be seen over smaller cover objects; so in that effect crouching works.
In hostage rescues, it makes sense to crouch the entire element. If you experience contact, you instantly become a dynamic element, so you move swiftly and accurately, even if that means a partial retreat. The idea is to get back to a safe and quiet area quickly, to let the heat die down.
You can not tell me that it is realistic for a hostage taker to ignore a man in uniform, who is heavily armed and with 3 of his mates, so therefore, you crouch, follow the shadows. But as i said above, once it goes noisy, there is no reason why it cannot go quiet again, untill the target area is reached.
Sorry for a late reply, my ISP was internet-less for a week, so i couldn't reply sooner though I used the time to enjoy some cool stuff otherwise.
Anyway, to get on topic.
I reinstalled TR, completed trainings with B.Sergeant to A.Captain rankings (95+ score each) and completed SP campaign on both arcade and simulation. Once I did that, I studied AI behavior and tested different approaches and tactics.
So what did I find out?
YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT S4/RVS/A2 tactics for TR, also, fast paced gameplay is NOT mandatory, whatsoever, the game is so well tuned that it perfectly applies both rapid entries and slow paced planed play. The reason why i said you can drop the above mentioned tactics off is because after longer tests and AI exploraion, I found that TR and SAS units need completely new and different approach for every corner, every situation, so far I managed to not only discover which are best formations, tactics, etc, but when to apply which tac aid, which weapon, which attachment. It all makes serious sense.
That being said, I will reply with a detailed comment on tactics (maybe even design illustrations) and briefly describe AI behavior (which surprisingly does what not even S4 and RVS ai does) So stay put
About stealth, crouch issue. Crouching is not only for accuracy, it also reduces your body mass for shooters, and when you do an entry, if you crouch, your coverman or whoever is behind you can aim and shoot. In TR, crouching is sometimes very essential in tight spots and I seen AI use it tactically in such rooms, on top of that it increases accuracy and what no other game does correctly is when you run out of ammo in primary weapon, you can crouch and swap to secondary fast then shoot the tango before he shoots you 1st (Mind you they have half a second to do it) using primary and reloading while exposed is a NO GO and you will die in 95% of cases. I watched some liveleak MVD OMON and SAS tactics videos and TR has more than it may seem, the before mentioned secondary swap is very accurate the only thing that is missing is the proper animation of primary being held with left hand faking engagement while right hand pulls out secondary. Crouching is also stealthy but only partially, once you are in the room, ai will listen to cracks (glass, plastic etc) and since there's a lot of debris in missions they will hear you so a fast entry is best option combined with a tac aid.
About bullet dispersion. I agree, games apply very very poor bullet dispersion, the only truly good scripting technique in games I know of is used in ArmA, A2, A3, OFP, VBS, VBS2 and old Day of Defeat in source. With games being cod-like and a no brainer, you may not see this fixed soon. Thankfully both Branch and Takedown are in the works and will feature correct features.
@MM, is your TR called Terror Squad or The Regiment? Terror squad version is not fully compatible with MP, also, v1.0 is the one proven to work. If your copy is not legit, you can find Technic full rip release since it is very hard to find TR to buy anywhere nowadays and several users who tried the release told me it works.
Also worth noting about MP is that score DOESN't matter when you finish, the only thing that does are your objectives so you can proceed to a next mission. Unlike in S4, you MUST complete a mission in order to advance to a next server pool mission.
One more thing, up for some TR rounds anyone who's got TR? Let me know!
We did actually try out a 3 man SAS element once, with limited success on Embassy 2, but it was too much like hard work.
Normal squad servers allow maximum 4 players, while sabre squad (deathmatch) allow 20 players.
MP version of the game has a lot more advanced AI, they perform actions SP AI's don't, this is due to friendly ai being replaced with actual players. That being said, MP is really really hard even with proper tactics, that's where the fun comes into place because it's challenging specially on Simulation where you get less HUD, less health, even smarter AI and even hostages perform more actions. In MP, on Simulation rear guards have to guard ALL THE TIME, because AI will often try to flank and wipe the squad off in second if it gets an opportunity, something not common in S4 where runners come only occasionally. In TR ai will also communicate with each other thus some may take cover and wait for troopers, some may search and attack, some may toss frag grenades, blow doors, etc.
However, with the information I gathered and will reveal on the game we should in theory have higher success rates in TR MP.
The last time I played TR online I remember our arses getting kicked by AI all over and over lmao.
IMPORTANT UPDATE:It appears that not only is TR's master server down, but GS is down as well. That being said, TR is an old game and without a mod patch for TR like for S4 the game will be never played online again. This is really sad. Specially sad now that I figured out how the game should be played online. It's not Gamespy to blame, the issue is deeper, and I will post a separate thread about it just now.
There goes our TR fun, it was worth it over the years and it will be missed
Again: nothing against it, this way we do dynamic actions.
But in stealth mode this tactic has a con: when passing the threshold the team commits inevitably to the room and must confront every contact. Again I'm arguing from a LE point of view (and representing the tactics of my team, not SAS). We have multiple scenarios where suspects are not aware of our presence and mb not even prepared to confront us. Ofc one can start a dynamic assault and clear the building fast to take advantage of this situation. But this approach might be difficult if the team is low on information about the target structure (for whatever reason).
In such a case we consider a sneaky, slow approach. Using angular scans or even the opti-wand to gather information before we enter a room. The aim of the stealth entry in such a situation is to spot contacts before we get spotted (searching for target indicators like gun muzzles, note that we only have to check the hard corners and possible blind spots). If we encounter a hostile contact WITHOUT being noticed, we can quickly withdraw a few steps. Then we have a huge tactical advantage and plenty of options: stay stealth by choosing a diffrent route, deploying gas or a (silent) less-lethal option, mb even to neutralize the contact with a suppressed weapon, or overwhelm the contact with a dynamic action.
Ofc if an enemy catches our team in the fatal funnel we are in trouble, no doubt about that. So this entry is not an option at all if we know that hostile contacts are present. And not our first option if we presume it. (Thinking about this argumentation we might use our stealth entry a little bit too often currently.)
I disagree.
;;;;;;;;;;Signature;;;;;;;;;;;
Who Dares Wins!!
Keep the thread on-topic pls or I will lock it...
[SAS] VET WEST
SQUADRON SERGEANT MAJOR (RET.)
22nd [SAS] E.V.R. - Who Dares Wins
Ok,
General rules of thumb, crouching allows for better stealth, for example; you are less likely to create shadows and be seen over smaller cover objects; so in that effect crouching works.
In hostage rescues, it makes sense to crouch the entire element. If you experience contact, you instantly become a dynamic element, so you move swiftly and accurately, even if that means a partial retreat. The idea is to get back to a safe and quiet area quickly, to let the heat die down.
You can not tell me that it is realistic for a hostage taker to ignore a man in uniform, who is heavily armed and with 3 of his mates, so therefore, you crouch, follow the shadows. But as i said above, once it goes noisy, there is no reason why it cannot go quiet again, untill the target area is reached.
Lt_Col WIZ, VC, MiD (Ret)
Then give us a thread to take it to, because these topics are much more interesting than others for me personally.
My idea of CQB is running in with a sword.
Well tech' the topic is about 'The Regiment'
I responded last, just to give the SAS opinion to the way this topic has developed.
Lt_Col WIZ, VC, MiD (Ret)
Woaaah ya'll
Sorry for a late reply, my ISP was internet-less for a week, so i couldn't reply sooner though I used the time to enjoy some cool stuff otherwise.
Anyway, to get on topic.
I reinstalled TR, completed trainings with B.Sergeant to A.Captain rankings (95+ score each) and completed SP campaign on both arcade and simulation. Once I did that, I studied AI behavior and tested different approaches and tactics.
So what did I find out?
YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT S4/RVS/A2 tactics for TR, also, fast paced gameplay is NOT mandatory, whatsoever, the game is so well tuned that it perfectly applies both rapid entries and slow paced planed play. The reason why i said you can drop the above mentioned tactics off is because after longer tests and AI exploraion, I found that TR and SAS units need completely new and different approach for every corner, every situation, so far I managed to not only discover which are best formations, tactics, etc, but when to apply which tac aid, which weapon, which attachment. It all makes serious sense.
That being said, I will reply with a detailed comment on tactics (maybe even design illustrations) and briefly describe AI behavior (which surprisingly does what not even S4 and RVS ai does) So stay put
About stealth, crouch issue. Crouching is not only for accuracy, it also reduces your body mass for shooters, and when you do an entry, if you crouch, your coverman or whoever is behind you can aim and shoot. In TR, crouching is sometimes very essential in tight spots and I seen AI use it tactically in such rooms, on top of that it increases accuracy and what no other game does correctly is when you run out of ammo in primary weapon, you can crouch and swap to secondary fast then shoot the tango before he shoots you 1st (Mind you they have half a second to do it) using primary and reloading while exposed is a NO GO and you will die in 95% of cases. I watched some liveleak MVD OMON and SAS tactics videos and TR has more than it may seem, the before mentioned secondary swap is very accurate the only thing that is missing is the proper animation of primary being held with left hand faking engagement while right hand pulls out secondary. Crouching is also stealthy but only partially, once you are in the room, ai will listen to cracks (glass, plastic etc) and since there's a lot of debris in missions they will hear you so a fast entry is best option combined with a tac aid.
About bullet dispersion. I agree, games apply very very poor bullet dispersion, the only truly good scripting technique in games I know of is used in ArmA, A2, A3, OFP, VBS, VBS2 and old Day of Defeat in source. With games being cod-like and a no brainer, you may not see this fixed soon. Thankfully both Branch and Takedown are in the works and will feature correct features.
@MM, is your TR called Terror Squad or The Regiment? Terror squad version is not fully compatible with MP, also, v1.0 is the one proven to work. If your copy is not legit, you can find Technic full rip release since it is very hard to find TR to buy anywhere nowadays and several users who tried the release told me it works.
Also worth noting about MP is that score DOESN't matter when you finish, the only thing that does are your objectives so you can proceed to a next mission. Unlike in S4, you MUST complete a mission in order to advance to a next server pool mission.
One more thing, up for some TR rounds anyone who's got TR? Let me know!
Speed, Precision, Experience, Endurance. General System Tweak Guide
We did actually try out a 3 man SAS element once, with limited success on Embassy 2, but it was too much like hard work.
Lt_Col WIZ, VC, MiD (Ret)
Normal squad servers allow maximum 4 players, while sabre squad (deathmatch) allow 20 players.
MP version of the game has a lot more advanced AI, they perform actions SP AI's don't, this is due to friendly ai being replaced with actual players. That being said, MP is really really hard even with proper tactics, that's where the fun comes into place because it's challenging specially on Simulation where you get less HUD, less health, even smarter AI and even hostages perform more actions. In MP, on Simulation rear guards have to guard ALL THE TIME, because AI will often try to flank and wipe the squad off in second if it gets an opportunity, something not common in S4 where runners come only occasionally. In TR ai will also communicate with each other thus some may take cover and wait for troopers, some may search and attack, some may toss frag grenades, blow doors, etc.
However, with the information I gathered and will reveal on the game we should in theory have higher success rates in TR MP.
The last time I played TR online I remember our arses getting kicked by AI all over and over lmao.
IMPORTANT UPDATE: It appears that not only is TR's master server down, but GS is down as well. That being said, TR is an old game and without a mod patch for TR like for S4 the game will be never played online again. This is really sad. Specially sad now that I figured out how the game should be played online. It's not Gamespy to blame, the issue is deeper, and I will post a separate thread about it just now.
There goes our TR fun, it was worth it over the years and it will be missed
Speed, Precision, Experience, Endurance. General System Tweak Guide
Well, if you're folding, I guess I should fold too. Ain't no use trying to get something to work that has lost its interest.
A shame. But hey, we move on.
Not giving up on TR hey, if there's a way to play this online again let me know and I will be more than glad to join/organize sessions
Otherwise there's no other option really...
Speed, Precision, Experience, Endurance. General System Tweak Guide
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